Trying to get back to good (meth injection help needed)

[Tuppidsay]

So before the car went down for 3 months the car ran great. Meth injection activated hard/instant in my logs. The car had a good timing curve peaking 9ish degrees (pump + meth) . I was very happy with it.

Then the car went down....

Since the cars been back up, the meth system has been a constant issue. First I had check valves go bad, then the solenoid fell apart (vibration), leaks, etc. Now that i think i got all that hashed out, the meth doesn't kick instantly or close to instantly anymore. The graph is far more curved than it ever used to be. timing has had to be reduced throughout the curve to keep the timing drops at bay. Im wondering, does it look like maybe the pump is weak? I've had the manifold off with everything still hooked up and tested it. Spray patterns and mist all look good but I have a nagging suspicion that maybe sitting for a few months with 100% meth in it, it's taken a shit...

Any thoughts or experience? Getting help with meth in an age of e85 is tough.

Thanks to anyone that takes a look.


Before She went down:

Currently....2 days ago:

 

[NoQuarter]

Have you sprayed into a bucket so you can observe the stream?

 

[Terry@BMS]

Have a copy of the CSV? We've actually been working on the WMI algorithms lately. So good timing.

 

[Tuppidsay]

Have you sprayed into a bucket so you can observe the stream?

Yes, its looks ok but i doubt i can tell the differance between 80psi and 120psi ya know?

Have a copy of the CSV? We've actually been working on the WMI algorithms lately. So good timing.

2 old good logs:
2017-09-30 21_14_34.csv
2017-09-30 21_38_51.csv

3 new ugly ones:
2018-03-09 20_03_28.csv
2018-03-12 19_37_30.csv
2018-03-12 19_41_57.csv

Ive got a years worth saved in my google drive if you would like them.

 

[Tuppidsay]

Hey terry, I was wondering. A lot of systems say they run the pump and then fire the solenoid such as aquamist. Could we do the same? I know thats a progressive type strategy that I don't use but what about say the start pressure is 8psi but the jb4 starts the pump 2-3 psi sooner and opens the solenoid at 8psi? Just to make sure pressure is up? Don't know if that would do any good but it might. Especially with larger direct port systems, more plumbing to fill.

 

[JuniorB]

Couple things to look for, just like a nitrous system. Make sure your getting full 12+ volts to the solenoid,solid ground and tight connections, Check for blocked lines, if your tank is in the rear, try to blow some compressed air thru the lines, and nozzles. Are you using a Hobbs for power to the solenoid? You can put 12v to the Hobbs and activate the solenoid. It sounds like there may be a restriction from the tank to the solenoid, hope this helps ya

 

[Terry@BMS]

Looking at the data I think the flow is fine. Part of what we're changing is how the data is filtered and displayed in logs and in dash via the meth logging channel. Anyway email me, I have a test firmware for you load and log.

With the FSB the solenoid stays closed until the pump has some pressure built up to avoid the sputtering on tip in you might get otherwise. It's setup to PWM the pump, not the solenoid. Years ago I looked in to solenoid PWM control and for what we're doing with 1 or 2 nozzle chargepipe kits where the meth is more or less at 100% the entire run, it doesn't make sense.

With the direct port meth kits people use actual fuel solenoids though and we do PWM those, keeping the pump running full tilt against it's bypass spring. Because more precise mapping is required due to the huge flow potential.

 

[colinod]

Id change the meth out for freshly acquired meth

 

[R.G.]

Without trying to decipher x=y JB4 logs the first thing I’d check if flow issue is tank vent.

 

[Torgus]

Id change the meth out for freshly acquired meth

It's not that old and it only absorbs water...

 

[Tuppidsay]

Well, took the system apart and found 2 check valves had failed. Allowing the rails and manifold to be drained between pulls. Now I also tried some firmware for the jb4 from Terry that alters how meth is reported. But after the firmware and before the check valves you could still see the gradual increase in the meth line just not as dramatic as the previous firmware. Either way, she's looking pretty good.

I did check the tank vent, it's was good.

The meth I'm using is about a month old but regardless, it's not a quality/effectiveness issue I was having, it was a it's physically having a problem getting to the engine.problem.

Thanks to everyone for looking helping, and suggesting.

https://datazap.me/u/tuppidsay/bef-...eplaced-more-leaky-checkvalves?log=0&data=1-4

 

[Torgus]

Congrats on getting it figured out!

 

[Bmwfixerguy1]

Good job, I feel you on the meth in an e85 age! Well put lol

I'm in the process of collecting all my parts to convert to port meth with the jb4 and am dreading the head ache to follow after lol

What special alterations did you do with using the jb4 with port meth?

 

[Tuppidsay]

When I went port meth I also installed gc lites. So the first biggest thing jb4 wise was a custom bef. With that we moved from map 3 to map 6. Meth scaling and activation psi I left alone at the default bms meth kit settings. Terry recommended meth safety 4 which only let's boost rise past Map1 levels after meth is flowing. Wile I was having the issues above it was helpful to stop timing drops but now that it's fixed I've turn it off because it killed my spool. Gc lites have crazy fast spool. Now that it's fixed meth hits 100% right about the time I hit 23psi. And timing hasn't been dropping so I'm happy.

The other big thing was moving away from the idea of using washer fluid as a cushion and cooling. Towards 100% meth and harnessing it to use as fuel. This is really why the custom bef is needed. To fix fuel scaling issues and increase timing. Before bef trims would drop to 0/near 0 which isn't good.

Get a big tank. At 16gph total flow, the 1 gallon from my bms kit didn't cut it lol

If I was to do it again I'd really consider a fuel it style injector based system. More control. It's like having infinite nozzle sizes on tap. Lol. I'm plenty happy with my prometh kit when I'm not having check valve issues. 3rd set on the way, at the very least their customer service and warranty are phenomenal. 2 minute phone call with no begging or arguing and they'll be here in 3 days.

I have no regrets about meth. I get it in town for 6 bucks a gallon. 5 gallons lasts me a month or so depending. E85 is atleast an hour away in good traffic. And as much as I drive, it might last 2 days to a tank.

 

[Bmwfixerguy1]

Same path here, I just put on a set of pure stage 2s,got my spec 3+ in as well. I'll link my build thread after this post if ya wanna follow along

I have a sharps customs manifold for port injection and was originally going to go with port and e85 and keep filling drums but decided to stay e50 and g port meth instead

I'll be using the OE nozzle in the chart Below with the 90s with m5 banjos below as well. They use the current fuel rail to hold them down into the manifold. Should be perfectly positioned nozzles.

Who did your bef if you don't mind?

 

[Tuppidsay]

Man, we had the same idea. I was looking at the OE nozzles for a sharps manifold as well. My only kink was I wanted to make a rail for them. Or adapt them to the sharps rail.

Should be a pretty sweet setup. My only warning is them push locks.

 

[Bmwfixerguy1]

Man, we had the same idea. I was looking at the OE nozzles for a sharps manifold as well. My only kink was I wanted to make a rail for them. Or adapt them to the sharps rail.

Should be a pretty sweet setup. My only warning is them push locks.

The push lock are my only worry right now!!!! Lol we have definitely both been using meth lon enough to know most the pitfalls haha

 

[Bmwfixerguy1]

Also what size nozzles and what pimp

Who did your bef?

 

[Tuppidsay]

I'm running prometh 2gph I each runner and a 4gph in the charge pipe. Prometh rates their's @ 100psi.

What pimp? I prefer the one on the corner of 130th and Aurora in Seattle. He's pretty fly. Sorry dumb joke. I'm using the one that comes in the bms kit. It's from coolingmist but virtually all the wmi companies use the same pump dp5800 or something like that.

Duane Pugh did/is my tuner. Was local in the Seattle area. He's on here but I don't remember his username. He does a lot of the cars around here. Can find him in the pnw n54 group o Facebook. Excellent guy.

 

[Bmwfixerguy1]

Cool thanks, just trying to get an idea of nozzle size.. don't think it's gonna be major cutial. I know the mid to low 100cc range is the spot.

Yea I Kno all pumps are the same for the most part just saw you gave specs for I thought the Prometh branded one and wanted to see if you chose for a reason

Anyways thanks and keep your eyes peeled for my set up soon