Rail pressure crashing.

17te92

New Member
May 8, 2023
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2010 335xi m sport
Hey,
Im new to his page and was hoping for some insight on my rail pressure crashing under 1000psi under wot.
I am in the middle of revisions with Chris at cd919.
I am still factory DI with 17t turbos, FBO and Walbro 450lpfp.
The hpfp is a recently new until from fcp. I am wondering if it is pretty common to peak its limit for fuel delivery at this power range or if it’s struggling to keep up? Was hoping for some info as I’m still a bit of a NOOB. lol.

Thanks. Log attached below.
 

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  • 2025-01-26 13_04_15 IJE0S Revvvv5.mhd.csv
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ktb_e92

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Apr 16, 2024
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2007 335i MT6
Hey, sorry to hear about what's going on. Is this on 93oct or E40? If 93oct, your rail pressure should be staying well above 2000psi with as low as a ~1500psi dip at the initial peak boost point, before recovering. Everything else looks pretty good for your setup aside from your STFT's maxing out because of your rail pressure crashing. Is your HPFP the FCP re-manned HPFP or a genuine BMW one?
 

17te92

New Member
May 8, 2023
5
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2010 335xi m sport
Hey, sorry to hear about what's going on. Is this on 93oct or E40? If 93oct, your rail pressure should be staying well above 2000psi with as low as a ~1500psi dip at the initial peak boost point, before recovering. Everything else looks pretty good for your setup aside from your STFT's maxing out because of your rail pressure crashing. Is your HPFP the FCP re-manned HPFP or a genuine BMW one?
This is on an e40 mix. And it is a genuine bmw hpfp, I am just wondering if I’m in need of fueling upgrades or if maybe I have a struggling hpfp. Hopefully somebody has experienced the same thing.

One thing to note is that the car doesn’t hesitate or fall on its face during WOT it pulls hard, but I am never satisfied with the rail pressure.
 
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ktb_e92

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Apr 16, 2024
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Oh okay, I see. Fairly decent read ahead...

Honestly, with the IAT and timing you're at, you should be pushing upwards of 22psi on those 17t's before you start seeing rail pressure struggle. First thing I'd suggest is fixing your ethanol blend and making sure you're calculating correctly before fill-up. Next, I'd hate to say that you may need to claim a warranty with FCP over your HPFP and swap it for another one since it's a genuine BMW pump, which is less likely to fail shortly after install vs a different brand's for a lower price. Since you bought it from FCP, it's under a lifetime warranty. Yeah that means more time having to remove & replace yet again, but at least it'll rather cost you time and not money, with how expensive they are.

Now, I dealt with the same exact issue you're dealing with on my setup: FBO + 19t's @ ~22psi of boost on E40 w/ ~11* timing. Pulled great, but rail pressure would crash to 900-1000psi and my STFT's would peg out in the +30s. Eventually, it would start to have some sputters up top, and then soon enough it would misfire hard enough to throw me in limp mode once the Winter / colder weather set in. This isn't good because it's basically a lean cut which will eventually put you out of a motor.

You have three options I suggest based on my experience:
-Bring it up to CD919 and tell him to do whatever he can to prevent this from recurring
-Fix your ethanol blend, especially if your tuner says the same
-Replace your HPFP with another genuine one, especially if your tuner suggests based off readings

Adding on to my situation, I went as far as buying a genuine HPFP, removing the little filter out of it before install + drilling a 1/16" bore through my fuel rail to allow for as much fuel flow possible, and putting in an ethanol content sensor to make sure I had spot-on blends. This was all based on my previous tuner's suggestion. Unfortunately, I saw no change and it seemed to be stumping him too which didn't make it any better. This brings me to my last suggestion for you: if all else fails, consider doing business with another tuner.

I say this because with what I mentioned about my situation and everything I did to try and fight it, it didn't make sense to me that I literally saw no change even after handfuls of revisions, not to mention seeing timing drops as far as -10* in multiple cylinders. It sucked because I did business with this person for a while, and they had me dialed in pretty solid with a 22psi E50 tune on the stock turbos which made me excited for the 19t tuning. But, their response times were slowing down significantly over those several months and the inconsistencies in each revision didn't make the situation any better.

Anyway, I started searching around and asking friends how they enjoyed services with whoever their tuner was and it led me to contacting DocVu. If switching to him didn't help, it'd be a win-lose because his response times are much faster though I'd have to continue troubleshooting what's causing the rail pressure to behave the way it was. Surprisingly though, aside from his super fast turnaround times making the dial-in take no more than 2 evenings, my timing drops were completely gone, and rail pressure looked amazing. Not to mention switching from my previous tuner's last file I loaded on, to DocVu's on the same fill-up and seeing the improvements listed. The quickest time he responded with a new revision was literally 5 minutes from the time I sent the email containing the datalog for the previous revision, and the longest I waited until I heard back from him was about an hour or two which was still awesome.

Now on E40, at ~21psi of boost w/ 13* timing up top in weather as cold as 30*F, fuel rail pressure still quickly recovers up to ~2300psi by redline, while my low pressure, STFT's, and timing still look clean. I'm encouraged I can push upwards of 23psi this Spring / Summer with this improvement.

Hopefully this helps, keep me updated.
 
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17te92

New Member
May 8, 2023
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2010 335xi m sport
Thank you for your detailed reply.
I have reached out to fcp regarding the life time warranty, and will try swapping pumps to first rule out the bad hpfp.
And if it still doesn’t change rail pressure I will heavily consider trying another tuner, how ever I would hate to point the finger at cd919/Chris, he has been nothing but helpful and quick to work with me, but you never know.
I am in Canada British Columbia to be exact, I’m not sure exactly where cd919 is located but maybe bringing the car to him in person could be beneficial.

Yeah I would love to kick this car up a notch where you’re at and get it to feel happy, I have experienced random misfires under wot but very rarely. I will attach another log when I figure out the warrenty from fcp!

Thank you again for the info!
 
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ktb_e92

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Apr 16, 2024
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No problem, sounds good.

Trust me, it was hard to decide against continuing services with my first tuner because of how much he's helped me with understanding the technical / performance side of this platform more than what you mainly see on the internet. At the end of the day, the condition of your engine is top priority and they have your money from the non-refundable tuning fee, the free revisions are just a bonus. So realistically it's no loss to them if you give someone else a try, unless they charged you for every few rounds of revisions...at that rate, the results better be consistent haha.

If I remember correctly, tuners prefer street tuning for better & consistent real-world results.

Yeah those random misfires are most likely lean hiccups from your rail pressure being so low at points it shouldn't be. Try not to do too much of that before it's too late. I can vouch for DocVu if you ever fully consider, but that's totally up to you!

Keep me updated
 

17te92

New Member
May 8, 2023
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2010 335xi m sport
I get where you’re coming from, I am going to start with the obvious stuff hpfp and go from there.
I do have one question for you, so your setup is FBO with 19ts no additional fueling upgrades?
Reason I ask is I’m trying my luck on a few different e9x platforms and most people tell me I’m crazy for not running PI or an overdrive kit, and believe me I get it, there is a lot more potential within hp levels, I was just hoping to keep the car at a cool 20ish psi, my factory turbos went bad so I figured I’d get a set of 17ts to try out.
Anyways thanks for the detailed replies it is truly a good source of information at the least.
 
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ktb_e92

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Apr 16, 2024
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Sounds good.

Yeah my complete mod list is listed under the "About" section if you click my profile. But to answer you up-front, correct, no port-injection, no HPFP overdrive, and no water/meth injection. I can vouch for you if you want to send the people my way that are calling you crazy haha. My username on here is the same as my YouTube & Instagram, DM's and/or comments are open for debate. In as low as 30*F weather, I can sustain 21psi of boost and 13* of timing by redline with rail pressure barely dipping below 1700psi before climbing back above 2000psi by 6k rpm, and nearly 2500psi by redline. This is with 40% ethanol content on the dot in my tank, according to my sensor. Anything below that temperature and traction becomes an issue.

For a majority, the absolute most these fuel systems can take if they're in good-enough standing is <22psi on a 40% ethanol blend with upgraded twins, even most single turbo setups before the need for an HPFP overdrive or port-injection comes up. That is the best balance for good timing and boost points, while the high pressure system can still handle it, before it starts to crash.

No problem, I'm glad you find it that way. Keep me updated
 
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17te92

New Member
May 8, 2023
5
4
0
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2010 335xi m sport
So to my knowledge Chris has been doing his best adjusting and fine tuning to get the rail pressure steady, (I’m no expert/tuner)
lol. He wanted a multi gear log, and so far this log I took today has been the best I’ve seen it. It did dip down to 800psi in between shifts. Granted it’s not the best data, the roads were wet and a bit bumpy reason the rpm spiked in 3rd. Went air born for a second. Whoooops. Anyways thought maybe you’d have some input.
Thanks

UPDATE
Chris took a look at the log and says this is all my setup will allow for now.
 

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  • 2025-01-29 16_58_11 IJE0S Rev7.mhd.csv
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ktb_e92

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Apr 16, 2024
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No doubt he's been working at it. This log looks better for sure because I don't see rail pressure getting pinned down to the low 1000s like before, but it's still barely making it above the 1500psi "safe zone" mark. I just can't agree with the fact that 18psi of boost through 17t's on E40 in ~60*F IAT's is the limit, given you have good fueling hardware along with a new HPFP.

Again I'm not one to blame tuners, trust me. I threw nearly $2,000 towards my car within a month based on my tuner's suggestions, and saw no improvement, because of the same exact issue you're dealing with. All along, it was his strategy behind my car that wasn't really the best after seeing how much healthier it does now with DocVu. Doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else he's tuned, but this is my mechanical longevity and money we're talking about here, not theirs. That's why I reassure the consideration of sacrificing the ~$500 to get a second tuner's opinion because of your situation looking a lot like mine did, before you start dumping a lot more money and time trying to figure out what's going on. It's like how one well-known doctor diagnoses you with one thing, when the reality is that the next doctor you get a second opinion from says otherwise and one of which's diagnosis is the correct one.

Let me know