I’m considering going back to twins, stock ic, cp, inlets, etc to have the car back in a forget it and drive state. What twins does everyone recommend, and why, for the most reliable and cheapest option for twins?
Considering going back to twins...
- Thread starter The Convert
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Depends on goals man -I believe we talked about this a couple months back but I may be mixing you up with someone else. Size the turbo to more than easily support your power goals on whatever fuel you're using, and you already know the rest of the story with maintenance/etc.
I'm really happy with the GC2 twins in our white 135i, and never had any issues with the PS2 twins in our black E92. Payam still has the single on his blue 335i and that's a blast to drive too but in a different way lol. It all comes down to power and low end response requirements. If 700whp is enough, pushing up maybe to 750whp, then twins all the way. When you just need to have 800whp+ then single is the way to go.
I've been running GC 2.0 for a number of months without issue and lots and lots of dyno time giving them a real hard time.
off topic martymil but have you strengthened the block? If not would you consider it. Some kind of cylinder support.
I get a bit nervous running my car above 25 psi on GCs. In time the cylinders might distort.
No my block is standard but i only run 21psi.
I dont think i needed to strengthen the block and after reading about the hotter than normal coolant temps running with a closed deck block I decided against it especially in a hot climate like ours where we been seeing 100f for more than 6 months of the year
I have battled timing drops because of our climate and keeping the engine running cooler is more important than power for the longevity of the motor
I havent experienced any issues on 25psi but i only run that psi to test new products and only for small stints to have some fun.
I found 21psi to be a sweet spot and never broken anything at that level.
But here is a log from today on 25psi up top and its happy as can be, we are heavily testing a number of products in our extreme climate so if we decide to sell them they will work in all conditions and as you can see there is no issues.
https://datazap.me/u/martymil/log-1546428645?log=0&data=3-23&solo=3&mark=67-37
I dont think i needed to strengthen the block and after reading about the hotter than normal coolant temps running with a closed deck block I decided against it especially in a hot climate like ours where we been seeing 100f for more than 6 months of the year
I have battled timing drops because of our climate and keeping the engine running cooler is more important than power for the longevity of the motor
I havent experienced any issues on 25psi but i only run that psi to test new products and only for small stints to have some fun.
I found 21psi to be a sweet spot and never broken anything at that level.
But here is a log from today on 25psi up top and its happy as can be, we are heavily testing a number of products in our extreme climate so if we decide to sell them they will work in all conditions and as you can see there is no issues.
https://datazap.me/u/martymil/log-1546428645?log=0&data=3-23&solo=3&mark=67-37
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Putting aside the twins/single debate, why would you go back to a stock intercooler and chargepipe? The stock intercooler is barely adequate for stock turbo boost levels, and there is no downside at all to running a larger/better one. Same with a chargepipe, we know the stock plastic one cracks - a metal one that is designed well will surely be more reliable.
I would ask the same question as Payam - what's not reliable? Most people argue the whole "singles are more reliable and easier to swap". I never understood why it was a benefit to easily replace something that is supposed to be reliable, lol.
However, I do live by the motto of "the further you deviate from stock, the less reliable the car becomes." To me, that means hybrid twins with stock exhaust placement, (including post turbo O2s vs pre turbo with a single), stock DME fueling (i.e. no PI). Other than that, everything else is tiddly winks - inlets - it's basically a filter and hose - use whichever you like, stock location or relocated just not the STOCK ones, lol. Intercooler, chargepipe, bov - those are all just bigger/better versions of stock stuff and don't fundamentally alter anything.
All that being said, I am very pleased with my MMP S3s. I do think Omar's new Hydra Performance hybrids will be giving them a run for the money, and I like the fact that they use the stock manifold with a custom turbine housing - very innovative. If you aren't in a rush, I'd say wait to see some results of the larger ones. Regardless of which brand you go with, I would definitely have them coated. I wish I had gotten mine coated myself by Swaintech with their white lightning coating, rather than the "commodity coating" that everyone uses. I am also a firm believer in the WPC treatment on the bearing surface. I know MMP uses a coating now instead of WPC, but I think WPC is better, and has no effect on tolerances since it is a treatment and not a coating.
Let us know what you decide and why you're considering it!
I would ask the same question as Payam - what's not reliable? Most people argue the whole "singles are more reliable and easier to swap". I never understood why it was a benefit to easily replace something that is supposed to be reliable, lol.
However, I do live by the motto of "the further you deviate from stock, the less reliable the car becomes." To me, that means hybrid twins with stock exhaust placement, (including post turbo O2s vs pre turbo with a single), stock DME fueling (i.e. no PI). Other than that, everything else is tiddly winks - inlets - it's basically a filter and hose - use whichever you like, stock location or relocated just not the STOCK ones, lol. Intercooler, chargepipe, bov - those are all just bigger/better versions of stock stuff and don't fundamentally alter anything.
All that being said, I am very pleased with my MMP S3s. I do think Omar's new Hydra Performance hybrids will be giving them a run for the money, and I like the fact that they use the stock manifold with a custom turbine housing - very innovative. If you aren't in a rush, I'd say wait to see some results of the larger ones. Regardless of which brand you go with, I would definitely have them coated. I wish I had gotten mine coated myself by Swaintech with their white lightning coating, rather than the "commodity coating" that everyone uses. I am also a firm believer in the WPC treatment on the bearing surface. I know MMP uses a coating now instead of WPC, but I think WPC is better, and has no effect on tolerances since it is a treatment and not a coating.
Let us know what you decide and why you're considering it!
If you want a car to just drive and never have to deal with maintenance and things going wrong you know the answer is ditch the n54 powered car. Either keep it as a toy or sell it and buy something reliable. It's not like stock n54s are magically reliable. I could go list all the weak points but you already know them.
I mean...maybe go back if you miss wastegate rattle?
N54's are totally reliable if you do preventative maintenance just like any other platform but that comes at a cost.
Wastegate rattle, Since when ?
Every aftermarket or stock rebuilt turbo doesn't suffer from this these days, that only affected original factory turbos.
The problem is everyone want to run around at 18psi + and expect to be perfectly reliable, guess what its never been designed to do that by BMW but we can take steps to make it more reliable but even at that level your maintenance intervals will be greatly reduced and double in cost.
The op is sick of it and I totally understand pouring endless amounts of cash into these cars.
Dude any aftermarket twins will be reliable as long as you keep it under 20psi with 21 psi overboost.
Just choose who ever gives you the best deal.
In my opinion there is nothing on the market that will want to sell my M that can give me the sheer driving pleasure and adrenalin rush every time I drive it.
I still miss my 135i and wish I kept it as a daily, inlets, outlets ic and stage 1 tune, done.
Wastegate rattle, Since when ?
Every aftermarket or stock rebuilt turbo doesn't suffer from this these days, that only affected original factory turbos.
The problem is everyone want to run around at 18psi + and expect to be perfectly reliable, guess what its never been designed to do that by BMW but we can take steps to make it more reliable but even at that level your maintenance intervals will be greatly reduced and double in cost.
The op is sick of it and I totally understand pouring endless amounts of cash into these cars.
Dude any aftermarket twins will be reliable as long as you keep it under 20psi with 21 psi overboost.
Just choose who ever gives you the best deal.
In my opinion there is nothing on the market that will want to sell my M that can give me the sheer driving pleasure and adrenalin rush every time I drive it.
I still miss my 135i and wish I kept it as a daily, inlets, outlets ic and stage 1 tune, done.
Maybe he is tired of leaky connectors and that kind of thing. After a while some of it can be off-putting, particularly if you're sick of spending money. These cars are getting to the point where you may have bought the car new or fairly new and sunk a bunch of money into the vehicle itself. Being in the leading 1/2 of the vehicles modification lifetime wasn't cheap and has gotten fairly hard to justify the total expense unless you're just getting into the platform.
There is probably more than a few of us that would take a full refund, get a P car and drive it with a basic tune.
There is probably more than a few of us that would take a full refund, get a P car and drive it with a basic tune.
Looking back on the money spent on the car, mods, + having to have a DD yes. My biggest issue now is I want/need to drop coin on a real suspension upgrade and I know a small fender bender will total the car...I am reminded of this every time I update my mod/maintenance excel file and look at the totals ;(. I also keep saying I'm not goes to invest more and it just never stops. It is an expensive time consuming hobby to say the least.
It would be neat to see a thread with everyone's totals listed out. I dont even count the parts taken on and off, replaced, etc...
I bought my car as a lease return for just under 35k and have put nearly 20k into the two ST kits alone. No clue what all I have recouped in selling off part A to get part B, or the goal amount “wasted” on the car, but needless to say, I’m pretty tired of spending money on this car. A full refund and a P car wouldn’t be a bad deal at all.
I believe I'm at about 70k in mine with the car when I did the math last year. That's why I stopped modding that car and got myself a few badass cars, P-car included in that list
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we can't go back in time, it's what you do from now on is what counts
Set a goal and stick to it but its easier said than done.
Set a goal and stick to it but its easier said than done.
There is probably more than a few of us that would take a full refund, get a P car and drive it with a basic tune.
My stock baseline results, just wait until I turn on the JB4 and start some real fun!
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Do you have a DD? If so, I say sell it modded and wait until you know what next platform you want for a fun car. I can't imagine demodding it and the time and labor involved would be worth it given you make a bit on the mods you can sell. I would be cursing myself the entire job which is not a small task. No way to makes sense paying a shop to do the work. After all of that you will know what you are missing and arguably not much more reliable.
Maybe he is tired of leaky connectors and that kind of thing. After a while some of it can be off-putting, particularly if you're sick of spending money. These cars are getting to the point where you may have bought the car new or fairly new and sunk a bunch of money into the vehicle itself. Being in the leading 1/2 of the vehicles modification lifetime wasn't cheap and has gotten fairly hard to justify the total expense unless you're just getting into the platform.
There is probably more than a few of us that would take a full refund, get a P car and drive it with a basic tune.
You can't put a 10' frazier fir in the trunk of a P car.
Must be nice
But you can in a truck. I have an electric 4 door hatch and a big turbo convertible, I did not mix tasks as you can see.
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