Anyone ever succesfully sued a dealership for negligence and lying?
- Thread starter matreyia
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- lawsuit dealership.
I don't think it matters because everyone has different circumstances. In my case:
Software update system wide a day later, BMW Performance Electronic Steering Wheel stopped working.
Set appointment to investigate and make sure software was reinstalled as original state.
They tried to reinstall, had crashing issues...two weeks in the shop, two service advisors later, they tell me all software is installed and working. I request Final ISTA/P report for visual official proof of software install...was promised upon car pickup...now a week later still no final report. SA Director says, I should have requested the day of pickup... I say I did and days afterwards and all advisors kept promising every day that I could pick it up...nothing...SA Director gets testy and says, "I am ending this discussion I have other things to do".
So I cannot take the car to another dealer without the final report...if I do, and they find no proper software, fingers start pointing and extra complications arise... also, no more money to do diagnostic to verify software install before hardware investigation.
Two weeks for programming that cannot be verified, no loaner car, no communications... and hang up at today's phone meeting.
BMW North American told me to talk to them directly and this is what happened.
No idea if it is hardware or software related. Not blaming them for malfunction yet...can't do so until investigation is complete.
But they been acting like I blame them the whole time.
And no idea why a simple printout can't be printed or emailed... so assme that they did not do anything while car was there for two weeks.
No other recourse except for lawyer.
VT
Well I've worked as a tech for bmw for the last 14 years and have never been requested to supply a client an ista-p final report lol
What software is in question? Your only gonna get the most recent ista-p version.. Unless they do an IRAP session then an engineer can load what he wants..
As for cars crashing it happens all the time idk what car your drive but it is literally a rolling computer. 2 weeks if a module is on back order is not unheard of by any means at alllllll!
What I want to know is what software.. If it's not Dinan at a Dinan dealer you are getting the latest ista-p version and that it.
I didn't request any final report on the first round and they gave me the report anyways to show they installed everything. Then on the second round when they were supposed to install the sport steering retrofit, I gave them my 2014 ISTA/P report with the retrofit software MAN file for their reference because they did not install it on the first round and erased all previous settings in all modules.
The car had Dinan 3 but I decided to return to full stock before attempting to tune. So their first software upgrade was upgrading stock modules all through the car.
On the second round, I specifically requested the ISTA/P final report to verify that they did install the retrofit steering wheel...and that is when everything went to shit. I am still dumbfounded as to why they would tell me they had problems installing the software, then they told me it was completely installed, then they showed me old final reports from years ago and the first round....then they said they would give me a current report, then they said they delete reports after a day or so...and they don't have it anymore. Then they kept saying I installed aftermarket software that made the steering wheel malfunction...which 1. they have no way of know this 2. I did not install any aftermarket software 3. I didn't even blame them for the malfunction because it could be a hardware failure... all this and I still don't have any evidence of any retrofit software that is REQUIRED to make the steering wheel active.
Let me ask you this... do you guys delete reports after a couple of days? Or is this the 5th lie that they are telling me to have an excuse? Thanks.
VT
The car had Dinan 3 but I decided to return to full stock before attempting to tune. So their first software upgrade was upgrading stock modules all through the car.
On the second round, I specifically requested the ISTA/P final report to verify that they did install the retrofit steering wheel...and that is when everything went to shit. I am still dumbfounded as to why they would tell me they had problems installing the software, then they told me it was completely installed, then they showed me old final reports from years ago and the first round....then they said they would give me a current report, then they said they delete reports after a day or so...and they don't have it anymore. Then they kept saying I installed aftermarket software that made the steering wheel malfunction...which 1. they have no way of know this 2. I did not install any aftermarket software 3. I didn't even blame them for the malfunction because it could be a hardware failure... all this and I still don't have any evidence of any retrofit software that is REQUIRED to make the steering wheel active.
Let me ask you this... do you guys delete reports after a couple of days? Or is this the 5th lie that they are telling me to have an excuse? Thanks.
VT
One what wheel did you get that they had to do a retrofit? What functions are you supposed to have now? If you have them just leave it be. If they had to do a work around which isn't uncommon and it all works then why Fret over the final report?
And if it's cash pay job then they have zero reason to keep any final report and will kick everything off their server they can to free up space.. If it's warranty they definitely have it due to a warranty audit.
I need to know more about the repair or retrofit before I say if it smells fishy
As for software.. Yes we can tell especially in a dme
Other modules with apps like Carly and that sort of app.. We can usually tell with super weird issues because the options don't match the vehicle order.. Those apps cause havoc sometimes and super super weird issues
And if it's cash pay job then they have zero reason to keep any final report and will kick everything off their server they can to free up space.. If it's warranty they definitely have it due to a warranty audit.
I need to know more about the repair or retrofit before I say if it smells fishy
As for software.. Yes we can tell especially in a dme
Other modules with apps like Carly and that sort of app.. We can usually tell with super weird issues because the options don't match the vehicle order.. Those apps cause havoc sometimes and super super weird issues
1. They knew I wanted the Final ISTA/P report before the 2nd programming job was done. And assured me that they would have it.
2. They knew that the software retrofit was not re-installed and the VO was erased. That is why they took the car back after I gave them the first ISTA/P Final report. Then now they said that it was there all along...when I am looking at it now and it is missing, while my own 2014 retrofit VO records clearly show on my ISTA/P final report.
3. They kept it 2 weeks and complained that they could not install the software, and now they said all software is installed but will not give me the final report...which they promised to give me before, during and after the 2nd programming job.
4. BMW Performance Electronic Steering Wheel requires a VO retrofit install on my 2009 e93 335i to function with the lights and gauges.
5. The wheel functioned fine before with Dinan, after stock restoration, after PD Transmission install...it only went kaputt after they did not install the VO retrofit.
So I asked them, to tell me if they did not manage to install the software then let me know so I can take it to another place to investigate. It is either a software issue or hardware issue. I have no idea which, but since I have no way of knowing if they actually installed the VO retrofit, I cannot procede with investigation of hardware. And I be damned if I am going to pay for diagnostic only to find that they did not install the VO.
That is the only reason why I want the report. It's not hard, just print it out if they ever had it, they would have printed it out the moment they finished programming. In this case, even after promising, with full knowledge that I wanted official records, before work, during work and after work...they did not have anything to show.
And the most telling thing is, they keep talking like I am blaming them for the malfunction, when in fact, I have always told them that I don't know if it is hardware or software and want to figure it out. I told them if it's hardware, too bad for me then...if it is software, then simply reinstall the VO retrofit. So I don't know why they keep saying it's not their fault or I am blaming them... that defensive posture is telling if you know psychology. If they simply told me from the outset, your car is messed up and we can't install jack, sorry...then that would have been it. But no...two weeks, no loaner car, no communication...promises this and that...and now, I am the bad guy?
I would say that in the very least that is fishy.
2. They knew that the software retrofit was not re-installed and the VO was erased. That is why they took the car back after I gave them the first ISTA/P Final report. Then now they said that it was there all along...when I am looking at it now and it is missing, while my own 2014 retrofit VO records clearly show on my ISTA/P final report.
3. They kept it 2 weeks and complained that they could not install the software, and now they said all software is installed but will not give me the final report...which they promised to give me before, during and after the 2nd programming job.
4. BMW Performance Electronic Steering Wheel requires a VO retrofit install on my 2009 e93 335i to function with the lights and gauges.
5. The wheel functioned fine before with Dinan, after stock restoration, after PD Transmission install...it only went kaputt after they did not install the VO retrofit.
So I asked them, to tell me if they did not manage to install the software then let me know so I can take it to another place to investigate. It is either a software issue or hardware issue. I have no idea which, but since I have no way of knowing if they actually installed the VO retrofit, I cannot procede with investigation of hardware. And I be damned if I am going to pay for diagnostic only to find that they did not install the VO.
That is the only reason why I want the report. It's not hard, just print it out if they ever had it, they would have printed it out the moment they finished programming. In this case, even after promising, with full knowledge that I wanted official records, before work, during work and after work...they did not have anything to show.
And the most telling thing is, they keep talking like I am blaming them for the malfunction, when in fact, I have always told them that I don't know if it is hardware or software and want to figure it out. I told them if it's hardware, too bad for me then...if it is software, then simply reinstall the VO retrofit. So I don't know why they keep saying it's not their fault or I am blaming them... that defensive posture is telling if you know psychology. If they simply told me from the outset, your car is messed up and we can't install jack, sorry...then that would have been it. But no...two weeks, no loaner car, no communication...promises this and that...and now, I am the bad guy?
I would say that in the very least that is fishy.
Their problem is their arrogance. I specifically gave them the original retrofit VO to make their job easier...but they didn't even look at the report...then now they have the balls to give me my own report and tell me that it is their most recent report with the VO retrofit.... totally ignoring the fact that the date says 2014.
I understand your reservations about talking bad about your own brotherhood of techs and service guys...but man, you can't seriously think that what they are doing is ethical or professional. There is no defense. If I were sitting here blaming them for the malfunction and demanding a new wheel...then yeah, that would be suspicious. But I am not.
I have all 4 complete records of text messages between myself and the foreman, director, first service advisor and the second service advisor. If you read them, you would be totally confused as to what the problem is...because they keep promising things then reversing and then acting defensive... unfortunately for them, they do not share text messages and they all contradict one another concerning the events. One guy says, they can't install it. The next guy says it's all perfect. The next guy says, it was there all along...the next says, the car doesn't need it so not necessary...
Unbelievable.
I understand your reservations about talking bad about your own brotherhood of techs and service guys...but man, you can't seriously think that what they are doing is ethical or professional. There is no defense. If I were sitting here blaming them for the malfunction and demanding a new wheel...then yeah, that would be suspicious. But I am not.
I have all 4 complete records of text messages between myself and the foreman, director, first service advisor and the second service advisor. If you read them, you would be totally confused as to what the problem is...because they keep promising things then reversing and then acting defensive... unfortunately for them, they do not share text messages and they all contradict one another concerning the events. One guy says, they can't install it. The next guy says it's all perfect. The next guy says, it was there all along...the next says, the car doesn't need it so not necessary...
Unbelievable.
No no no trust me I'm not trying to side with anyone at all.. Think of it more like trying to talk you off the ledge lol.. I know your mad and my point is what they might be trying to cover up is forgetting to hit print or a whisper down the lane error..
If that wheel is functioning correctly than it was coded correctly or a work around was done to make It work correctly..
What I would recommend in closing is finding a new dealer to go to or don't go at all because there is clearly a trust issue from the door.. I deal with this kind of argument all day long based off of the red tape not the work performed..
If you forget to reset a service light.. In the client's eyes the job was not performed. You can change oil and not reset the light. But to the client it never happened.
I'm trying to give you piece of mind that if it all works it was done correctly.. Some how some way it was done correct.
If I was you I would sleep on it...bwaitntill you cool down a bit and go for a good drive with your new wheel
take it out on your tires.. No one wants to waste time and money on a lawyer to prove a point over a live of paper
No no no trust me I'm not trying to side with anyone at all.. Think of it more like trying to talk you off the ledge lol.. I know your mad and my point is what they might be trying to cover up is forgetting to hit print or a whisper down the lane error..
If that wheel is functioning correctly than it was coded correctly or a work around was done to make It work correctly..
What I would recommend in closing is finding a new dealer to go to or don't go at all because there is clearly a trust issue from the door.. I deal with this kind of argument all day long based off of the red tape not the work performed..
If you forget to reset a service light.. In the client's eyes the job was not performed. You can change oil and not reset the light. But to the client it never happened.
I'm trying to give you piece of mind that if it all works it was done correctly.. Some how some way it was done correct.
If I was you I would sleep on it...bwaitntill you cool down a bit and go for a good drive with your new wheel
The wheel is not functional. Otherwise there is no point in asking for paperwork in order to investigate the issue. It is obvious that they are inept and dishonest. If they jad just came.out from the start and told me they could not install software for whatever reason, tgat would have been done since I am a reasonable person.
You understand that the issue is not that I blame them for the malfunction, it is the fact that they are impeding my search to solve the problem by lying to me. Two weeks of über and they expect me to pay for diagnostic at another dealership just to kist the software they supposedly installed? Nope. Hell if they even offered to hook up the car and do a new printout I would be fine with it.
