Aluminum Outlets: VTT vs PSP

[Dusty Waterfall]

Love the update, GC's seem incredible, seriously nice job. Still have some long-term reliability concerns, but big advancements.

Aren't you the first to talk shit when someone copies a design? Your charge pipe looks identical to the one on my car. Identical. Now I'm all for it, competition breeds excellence and cost reduction, and there's really only one way to make that charge pipe.

Although they look similar they are in fact very different. Your charge pipe has a higher flow rate, better merge and better build quality. Your charge pipe will support more hp, spool faster and have less wgdc and pressure drop compared to their smaller diameter offering. The chinese will never be able to copy this...

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

No idea who you are, literally don’t care. If you think going larger on the hotside charge pipe is where you are making your power gains, picking up spool, and influencing WGDC. I would suggest picking up a book on turbocharger theory, as you have a lot to learn. Either way, just took a look at your site, some decent stuff. Welcome to the market. Careful what you claim though, we are the people who make people back up their claims with dyno charts, flow numbers, and real world results like trap speeds. Welcome aboard private.

Ps. Your outlet is overpriced, I see a price reduction in your future if you want to stay competitive.

 

[BQTuning]

FWIW, the VTT Aluminum outlet was in the works before PSP came out with theirs, I mean long before PSP came to surface about theirs. I know this cause I was bugging VTT to make one for my Z4 as I wanted to get away from the silicone outlet as I was going with CF inlets. Never had an issue with it, just wanted to get away from all silicone period. Also, the PSP aluminium outlet does not support the 1 series and Z4 IIRC, the VTT aluminum outlet does.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I appreciate you stating facts. A lot of people do not really understand how long these have been in the works for us. We started getting ours designed early 2017. No idea when these came out, as I honestly just heard of them yestesday. Just because something takes a while to be announced, does not mean it has not been in the works for quite some time...

 

[Tuppidsay]

tony, i have your silicone outlets on my gc lites. (i have no idea how people mess up the install of these...) Any real reason to get the aluminum setup?

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I personally still run silicone on the VTT shop cars. If installed properly, zero issues. The problem is, there is so many variables when installing that errors can be made. The aluminum ones eliminate this. They fit one way only, and they have one small area that can be affected by heat, and they will be covered with heat resistant material. This means less room for error

 

[fmorelli]

And they fit the Z4. Really, what else is there to care about

Filippo

 

[matreyia]

I personally still run silicone on the VTT shop cars. If installed properly, zero issues. The problem is, there is so many variables when installing that errors can be made. The aluminum ones eliminate this. They fit one way only, and they have one small area that can be affected by heat, and they will be covered with heat resistant material. This means less room for error

I been trying to order your aluminum outlets and it says "pre-order". I tried to go through the whole order to pre-order and the site got stuck at the end. Do you know when you will have them in stock?

Thanks.

VT

 

[Rob09msport]

I don't understand how anyone could give tony neg rep for this. He was inaccurately attacked and defended himself very nicely even complemented dusty waterfalls products.

 

[Rush @ RushCustoms]

Although they look similar they are in fact very different. Your charge pipe has a higher flow rate, better merge and better build quality. Your charge pipe will support more hp, spool faster and have less wgdc and pressure drop compared to their smaller diameter offering. The chinese will never be able to copy this...
View attachment 8326

Where’d you go man? This is the octagon for a reason. I see Tony replied to you and you’ve been quiet

 

[Torgus]

Has anyone flow tested these back to back? PSP or VTT? Should be easy enough to get a set and prove which outlet is one to get form either vendor. Thus gaining sales.

At the end of the day outlets are small money. I don't see how the PSP outlet could flow less than the VTT pipe. But real world testing would be nice to prove it.

It would be interesting to see when too large an outlet pipe actually hurts spool or top end as well.Until that testing is done I think it is hard to say one is too large vs. another.

At these power levels, on other platforms, almost everyone runs 3'' pipe from turbo to TB afaik. Hence why the large race intercooolers for the n54 are 3'' in 3'' out iirc. It certainly is not because there are more single turbos than twins.

 

[fmorelli]

Two different price points. PSP quality is what one pays for at 40% more cost. Nice as you can choose your price point. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I think the assembly quality of the PSP unit is hard to beat. Then again the VTT setup is very well priced.

Filippo

 

[Torgus]

Two different price points. PSP quality is what one pays for at 40% more cost. Nice as you can choose your price point. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I think the assembly quality of the PSP unit is hard to beat. Then again the VTT setup is very well priced.

Filippo

I agree 100%. As in most things in life, you get what you pay for.

Inlets and outlets are cheap when compared to what you pair them to aka a 2.5-4k twin turbo setup. If you are going to drop that coin why not get the best?

To that argument, fully optioned out MMPs, for instance, with inlets and outlets etc. is a hair under what a single turbo set up will cost you, with significantly more headroom and less points of failure imo.

To each their own.

 

[matreyia]

I agree 100%. As in most things in life, you get what you pay for.

Inlets and outlets are cheap when compared to what you pair them to aka a 2.5-4k twin turbo setup. If you are going to drop that coin why not get the best?

To that argument, fully optioned out MMPs, for instance, with inlets and outlets etc. is a hair under what a single turbo set up will cost you, with significantly more headroom and less points of failure imo.

To each their own.

I had 2 inch inlets from MMP, the front ones kept burning up...so after I requested a third set, and got no answer, I just got the PSP and never looked back. No more sputtering or weird breathing issues...car just revs smoother than before.

 

[Tiago@VRSF]

The larger diameter inlet is obviously going to outperform the smaller on a flow bench but that has no direct correlation to HP gain. Just because a pipe flows xxx% more than a competitors on a flow bench it doesn't mean it's going to translate into a linear HP gain. Comparing the incredibly restrictive OEM tubing vs a larger upgrade like the ones listed is what's important.

We've just converted to our older silicone design to a new aluminum design which are 2" and resolve a lot of the install error issues that seem to be prevalent with the silicone design. The 2" design is capable of supporting up to 1000whp but please keep in mind that the cars in the 400-500whp range are going to see minimal gains whereas a car pushing 750-800whp might notice a few more ponies up top. Don't buy into the flow bench marketing nonsense unless it applies to your application.

 

[Torgus]

On a flow bench the larger diameter inlet is obviously going to outperform the smaller tubing but that has no direct correlation to HP gain nor does it mean there will be a HP gain. Just because a pipe flows xxx% higher on a flow bench it doesn't mean it's going to translate that into a linear HP gain. Comparing the incredibly restrictive OEM tubing vs a larger upgrade like the ones listed is vastly more important.

We've just converted to our older silicone design to a new aluminum design which are 2". They are capable of supporting up to 1000whp but cars in the 3-400whp range are going to see minimal gains whereas a car pushing 750-800whp might notice a few more HP up top.

Pictures?

 

[Tiago@VRSF]

The VRSF N54/N55 E & F chassis aluminum turbo outlets are all currently in stock and we're working getting the 135i/535i versions in now although those are still available in silicone. The major benefit to these is they completely eliminate install error and will never melt

http://www.vr-speed.com/the-vrsf-co...ipe-upgrade-kit-2009-2013-bmw-z4-n54-e89.html

 

[matreyia]

The VRSF N54/N55 E & F chassis aluminum turbo outlets are all currently in stock and we're working getting the 135i/535i versions in now although those are still available in silicone. The major benefit to these is they completely eliminate install error and will never melt

View attachment 15459

http://www.vr-speed.com/the-vrsf-co...ipe-upgrade-kit-2009-2013-bmw-z4-n54-e89.html

No idea if this is 2 inch diameter or stock. Does not list in description. If buyers go to site and don't read this thread they would be confused. Recommend update description on website.

 

[fmorelli]

No idea if this is 2 inch diameter or stock. Does not list in description. If buyers go to site and don't read this thread they would be confused. Recommend update description on website.

And photos of in the inside merges.

Filippo

 

[gorspeed]

And photos of in the inside merges.

Filippo

This please.